Tina Bose Kumar provides insight into what Bollywood dance is all about that may convince you that it is the most advanced of all dance forms. Find out how she makes magic onstage. Follow her at https://www.instagram.com/tinabose_infused/ and https://www.facebook.com/TinaK.Bose and her company Infused Performing Arts at https://www.instagram.com/infusedperformingarts/ and https://www.facebook.com/InfusedPerformingArts
DanceTalks with Tina Bose Kumar: Full Transcript
Hosted by Andrea Cody, Director of Dance Houston. Originally released August 11, 2020. This transcript was generated automatically and may contain small errors.
Episode summary (SEO)
On this episode of DanceTalks from Dance Houston, host Andrea Cody talks with Tina Bose Kumar, co-founder and artistic director of Infused Performing Arts, the Houston-area Bollywood dance school and company she founded in 2010 with her husband, creative director and magician Kiron Kumar. Tina began ballet and tap as a toddler and Bharatanatyam at five, trained with gurus Uma Nagarsheth and Smt. Malini Menon before her arangetram, and was crowned Miss FOKANA. She explains what makes Bollywood dance unique: expression, storytelling, mudras (hand gestures), eye work and even lip syncing, layered over classical, folk, hip-hop, contemporary and more. Tina describes how Infused blends magic illusions with dance in story-driven productions, from Bollywood Blast at Miller Outdoor Theatre to a Ramayan finale for Masala Radio’s Diwali celebration and the Bollywood finale at “Howdy Modi” at NRG Stadium. She and Andrea also talk about teaching online during the pandemic, social media, booking clients directly, valuing artists’ time, and the “Jai Ho” effect after Slumdog Millionaire. Her parting advice: put on a song you love and let it move you. Recorded August 1, 2020.
Key takeaways
- Bollywood is expression first. Whatever the style (hip-hop, salsa, contemporary), the eyes, face, mudras and storytelling rooted in Indian classical and folk dance are what make it Bollywood.
- Small movements build big skills. Training mudras, eye and neck isolations strengthens the hands and adds detail that improves every dance style.
- A story makes the magic work. Infused builds Kiron Kumar’s illusions into fairy-tale storylines so the magic feels meaningful and relatable to every audience.
- Online teaching can be more detailed. Close-ups of feet, hands and faces on video let Tina correct students more precisely than in a crowded studio.
- Artists’ time has value. Five minutes of custom choreography takes years of training and hours of creative work, and clients get what they pay for.
Transcript
This transcript has been lightly edited for readability: filler words and repeats were removed, and a few short passages that could not be heard clearly were left out.
[0:05] Introduction and early training
Andrea: Hello, and welcome to DanceTalks. I’m your host, Andrea Cody. Today is August 1, 2020, and my guest is Tina Bose Kumar. Tina is the co-founder and artistic director of Infused Performing Arts. Tina, welcome to DanceTalks.
Tina Bose Kumar: Hey, Andrea. Thank you so much for having me on. I’m really excited to be here.
Andrea: My pleasure. Would you please take us from the top and tell us how you started dancing?
Tina Bose Kumar: My mom told me that as soon as I started walking, I started dancing, so she knew I needed to be put in a dance class. I also had a lot of energy in general. Around one or two, the daycare I was at had ballet and tap, so I started in ballet and tap, and at five I started my Bharatanatyam Indian classical dance training. I did ballet, tap and Bharatanatyam pretty much my whole life, and off and on I learned other styles: jazz, hip-hop and modern. I trained until I was in college. Once I did my arangetram for my Bharatanatyam classes, I took a small break when I went to college, because I was in New York, my guru wasn’t there, and I couldn’t find anybody I really liked. So that’s my dance background.
Andrea: Who’s your guru?
Tina Bose Kumar: I had a couple. My first one here in Houston was Uma Nagarsheth, and when I did my arangetram, it was Srimathi Malini Menon. Those are my two gurus for Bharatanatyam.
[2:12] Her gurus
Andrea: Awesome. Can you tell us a little bit about them?
Tina Bose Kumar: I moved to Houston from Miami when I was 10, and I think I was around 10 when I first started class with Uma Nagarsheth, who I called Uma Auntie. She was an awesome teacher. Along with Bharatanatyam, I learned a lot of folk styles like garba and raas. She’s a very famous Kathak teacher, and she has a lot of different dance backgrounds. Then I moved to Srimathi Malini, who had moved here from India after she got married, and I trained with her. She did Bharatanatyam and Kuchipudi mainly, and her choreography style was very different, because her guru was from a different style and she was from the South. Indian classical dance is very different everywhere. Whether it’s Bharatanatyam or Kuchipudi, it depends on what school your teachers are from and who their gurus are; that’s what’s passed down. Her choreography was a lot more intensive and advanced, so it was really awesome to learn from her for the two years I did before my arangetram.
[4:00] Miss FOKANA
Andrea: Very cool. I know you ended up going into pageantry. Can you tell us how you got started and where it took you?
Tina Bose Kumar: I was always competing growing up, in dance competitions and speech and singing. That was very normal for Indian kids. I’m from Kerala, so there were competitions among U.S. Keralites, within your church, or community-wise, and I was always competing in something or other. There was a national convention called FOKANA every two years, for everyone from North America, the U.S., Canada and Mexico. It was a big, grand convention, and they had pageants. The title was basically Miss Kerala of North America, but it was spelled out as Miss FOKANA. I used to see it every time we went to the convention, and I thought, I really want to do that once I’m able to. I was supposed to compete when I was 16, but something happened that year, so I actually did it when I was 18. I wasn’t expecting to win. I went just to have fun, because I had never done a pageant before. I’d competed in a lot of other things, but I’m pretty okay at everything except answering questions; sometimes I get flustered, because you don’t know what they’re going to ask you and you want to sound coherent. But they ended up asking me a question that was really easy for me to answer.
Andrea: What was your question?
Tina Bose Kumar: I think they asked me who my hero was, or who I looked up to, and I said it was my father, because he raised me a lot differently than a lot of other women of Indian origin. They’re really big on us going into the medical field, getting married immediately, those kinds of things. My dad always raised me to be very independent. He told me that as I got older, whether I got married or not, I needed to be financially independent and have my own things going on, because you don’t know where life is going to take you. He raised me to be very headstrong, self-aware and independent, and to make my own decisions. That has helped me a lot, and I think that’s why I was able to boldly open a dance studio and continue it for so many years.
Andrea: Thanks, Mr. Bose. Good job.
[7:30] Founding Infused Performing Arts
Andrea: Your company, Infused Performing Arts, has a mission to promote awareness of Indian culture, and you opened in 2010. How did you start?
Tina Bose Kumar: I always knew I wanted to start a dance school, but I didn’t think I’d start it so early. I was 22 at the time. I thought I’d do it a lot later in life, maybe when I retired from dancing. But it all fell together. I had met Kiron, who co-founded it with me. It’s really hard to find guys who are dancers, and he came into my life, and I thought it was a good time. Not that you can’t do it on your own, of course you can, but it always helps to have somebody to split the responsibilities with, because people don’t understand how much it takes to run a studio properly. It’s not just teaching classes. There’s advertising and talking to sponsors; it’s like a corporation, but we’re dealing with kids and parents, and we still have to put on shows and productions and get costumes, and those costumes don’t just come; you have to design them. There’s editing music, all of it. Kiron and I are exact opposites in everything, so it was easy for us to split tasks. It became so natural, because we’re not at all alike and we don’t step on each other’s toes. But we both have very alpha personalities, so when it comes to choreography, we definitely butt heads a little. For some reason it always ends up being okay. I think it’s good that we have that camaraderie and that back-and-forth banter, because it really helps.
Once we got married, Kiron didn’t have a job right away because he had come from India, so I said, “Let’s start a dance school.” I had already started something small in my parents’ house. We had redone the upstairs into a kind of pseudo studio, and I had a few kids I was teaching and a team competing in the college circuit and some local competitions. So I had a foundation; it wasn’t official, but let’s see what happens. He said okay, and we just decided to make it happen. There wasn’t anything here that I liked, Bollywood dance-wise, and we knew we wanted it to be different. Kiron, coming from India, was in the heart of what’s going on; they’re very up to date and trendy, and in Houston we’re a little behind, not just in the Indian atmosphere but in everything. LA and New York get things first. So we wanted to make sure we were on the pulse of things and show Bollywood dance that way. That’s why we say we redefine Bollywood.
Andrea: Yes, you do. That reminds me of my parents being so supportive of me growing up, too. My brother is two years older than I am, and when he left for college, they converted his bedroom, which was next to mine, into a dance studio. They pulled up the carpet, put mirrors on two of the walls (the other two had windows), and put a TV with a VHS player up in the corner and a nice sound system. I was busy. I loved it.
Tina Bose Kumar: That’s amazing. That’s really how I started teaching, in my parents’ house. People don’t understand how much parental support helps kids succeed in anything and fulfill their dreams. That little push from somebody with the guidance and funding really helps, especially artists, because we don’t make a lot of money doing what we do. We do it out of passion and how much we love it.
Andrea: For sure. Thanks, Mom and Dad, and to my brother: sorry we took over your room, but we appreciate it.
[12:30] Meeting Kiron
Andrea: How did you meet Kiron?
Tina Bose Kumar: I was on tour dancing. During the summertime, actors come to America and go on tour doing shows and performances. That year, one of the actresses didn’t get her visa, so they needed to fill that spot. I had won the pageant the year before and was still holding that title, so people somewhat knew me, and it was easy for them to take me on tour. I learned all the pieces and was a dancer for that tour. Kiron used to teach actors back in India, and he was in New Jersey at the time doing IT for a company. Kiron had taught the actor I was dancing with a long time ago for a London or Dubai show, so the actor called Kiron to come see the show while he was in town. Kiron met me backstage, and that actor actually gave him my number without telling me. Then the rest is history. We were friends for a long time before we started dating. Neither of us ever thought we would marry someone like each other, but it ended up being like that.
Andrea: How long have you been married?
Tina Bose Kumar: Ten years.
Andrea: So your honeymoon was opening a studio?
Tina Bose Kumar: Yes. I tell people, if you’re really going to do something on your own, you have to understand you’re giving up a lot of your personal time. We didn’t go on a honeymoon for two years, because we were building the studio. We couldn’t take a vacation because we didn’t have enough students yet and we’d miss shows. We had to make sure we were in a good place before we could travel and enjoy the fruits of what we’d done.
Andrea: Who were you touring with? What was the name of the show?
Tina Bose Kumar: The actor I was on tour with was Vineeth Kumar. I forget the name of the show. It was a long Malayalam name; I have no idea, actually.
[15:00] Infused’s style
Andrea: Where can people see you online? Do you have videos out?
Tina Bose Kumar: Yes, on YouTube, Facebook and Instagram, at Infused Performing Arts. We have videos everywhere of us dancing.
Andrea: I love your videos. I’ll put a link in the show notes so people can connect with you and follow you. How would you describe your dance style to someone who hasn’t seen you dance?
Tina Bose Kumar: From what people have said watching us, we’re very high energy and very colorful. Our performance team does stunts and tricks, and we teach our students to eventually get to that level. The main thing with Bollywood is that there’s not one specific style. It’s so many different styles combined that really any dance is relevant. We take whatever background you start with, even if it isn’t Indian dance at all, and build on it so you can learn multiple styles, because that’s what Bollywood is. We’re doing dances that are in movies, and movies don’t have only classical or folk dances now. So much of it is hip-hop, contemporary and modern, and we do salsa; literally, we do everything. We get asked to do everything when we get hired for shows, too. So we tell everybody, if you’re joining our dance school, you’re going to learn all styles of dance, because that’s really what it is. They’re just set to Indian music.
Andrea: What was it I saw you do for the wedding, or the henna party? It was like a Turkish dance.
Tina Bose Kumar: Yes, we did a Turkish entry, but we made it like Bollywood. We mixed belly dance and Bollywood moves so it was relevant and made sense with the Turkish song. People ask us all the time, “Can you fuse ballroom and Bollywood?” And I say yes, what do you want us to do? We’ll make it happen.
[17:30] What makes it Bollywood
Andrea: So what’s the definition of Bollywood? Historically it comes from the Bollywood cinema, so tell us a little about that history. And at some point, is it not Bollywood anymore? Is it the music, or the hands, or the eyes?
Tina Bose Kumar: I think the basis of Bollywood dance is expression, the way we express with our eyes and face. I don’t think any other dance puts as much emphasis on expression as Bollywood does. You can be doing hip-hop or salsa, but the way your eyes are, the way you look into the camera or the way you are on stage, has a completely different vibe. It looks so different. At the base of Bollywood dance are our Indian classical and folk dances, and they’re about storytelling. That’s really what Bollywood dance is: you’re telling a story. Whatever the music and lyrics are, we’re conveying that message. Even though we’re doing different styles of dance, we still use a lot of mudras, and the way our eyes and face express. We’re really big on lip syncing, which is the number one rule you’re not supposed to break in any other dance style; you’ll get in trouble at auditions for lip syncing. But we’re all about lip syncing. It’s coming from film, so we have to give it that respect, and make sure we’re still telling a story, whatever that story is.
Andrea: And what are mudras?
Tina Bose Kumar: Mudras are hand gestures, and there are different hand gestures depending on what style of Indian classical dance you learn. I’m a Bharatanatyam dancer, so those are the mudras I know most. I still do Kathak style and Kuchipudi, but I have to learn the proper movements and hand gestures for those from somebody. We teach all of our girls who start with us; it’s part of the beginner curriculum, so they get their hands comfortable switching between different mudras, whether we ever use them or not. It has helped so much with your hands and your flexibility. I can move just my fingertips, and you get so strong doing those minute movements with your hands. It helps with any dance style; it’s like hand exercises. And when you’re telling a story, you’re asking someone to come, and then you love them. It’s so pretty. You can do so much with small, minute things without even moving your legs.
Andrea: Wow. That intimacy and intricacy is captivating, and it’s so challenging. You don’t get away with just body position, or flexibility or strength. All of that is on top of it.
Tina Bose Kumar: People only know about mudras, but there are also eye exercises, and neck movements. For Bharatanatyam it’s broken down, so you learn everything specifically, and then when you put it together, that’s what makes it look the way it does. There are a lot of moving pieces at the same time.
Andrea: Extreme isolation.
Tina Bose Kumar: Yes, really. And with Bollywood encompassing so many other styles of dance, it’s just extra layers.
Andrea: I can see how it being film makes sense of some of that, because so much of dance is “do it for the back row,” and the back row doesn’t care what you’re doing with your eyes. That’s overlooked in large theater spaces, but if it’s going to be on film, close up on your face, you have to act all the way.
Tina Bose Kumar: And I feel like if you’re the person who’s putting everything on point, your eyes, your hands, your feet, it doesn’t matter whether you’re in the front row or the back row.
Andrea: For sure. I bring binoculars to the theater anyway; I want to see the whole picture. I love watching you dance, because you’re always shining, you’re always on, and you’re never shy about it. When you have that mastery of your expression, you never turn away; you’re always going all out, and that energy is infectious. It’s very liberating to see somebody with the courage to shine so brightly.
Tina Bose Kumar: Thank you. Nowadays I put so much emphasis on making sure our students and dancers look good that I don’t even notice what I do anymore. When you run a studio, you’re almost in the background a lot of the time. This quarantine and COVID have made me want to go back to working on myself and recording myself, because I’m not able to do as much as I normally do with my students. We’re teaching virtually, but we’re not putting on shows. It’s been really nice; I feel like I’m going back in time, working on myself in ways I haven’t been able to in so many years. I’m the one with the camera, doing all these things.
[24:00] Teaching through the pandemic
Andrea: Good. How’s your company handling the pandemic, in terms of having a studio and all your liabilities?
Tina Bose Kumar: We’re holding on to our studio, because we’re trying our best to make sure we have a studio to come back to whenever we can open up. We were planning on opening in June or July, but with the numbers increasing in Houston, I didn’t want to be liable. We can’t control everybody and everything, especially with kids. You say you’re going to space them apart, but they’re going to touch each other, they’re going to go up to someone’s face and talk, they’re going to touch their masks. With adults it’s a little different; we can control it more, but the majority of our classes are kids, so we felt it was better to continue online. We’re so happy for the people who have continued with us online. The nice thing about virtual is that people are joining from outside Texas or really far away, who always wanted to join but couldn’t make it to Stafford or Pearland. They say it’s hard to drive consistently once a week, and I understand. So we’ve been able to do that. I’m teaching competition routines online, first dances online, family dances online. Kiron and I were talking, and we’ll probably continue some level of virtual classes even once we go back, because it’s actually been nice and convenient for people.
Andrea: And it’s great that you have a studio to teach out of.
Tina Bose Kumar: We’re teaching sometimes here and sometimes at our house; we converted a space there too, because we have a kid, and it’s hard now without a lot of babysitting options, and he’s not in school.
Andrea: How old is your son?
Tina Bose Kumar: He’s three, and he gets into everything. Sometimes working at the house is easier, because Kiron also has another job in IT. He’ll be working, and I’ll have to go immediately into class, so I can’t leave the house because of babysitting. But we’re making it work. It is what it is.
[27:17] How to support Infused
Andrea: How can people support you?
Tina Bose Kumar: We have dance classes and fitness classes, if anyone’s interested. We have classes for kids, a dance company for semi-professional to professional dancers, and fitness classes for adults, on different days and times with different instructors. If neither of those is something you’d like, we’re also taking donations, if anybody wants to support us that way.
Andrea: And they can request private lessons or custom choreography?
Tina Bose Kumar: Yes, custom choreography and private lessons for whatever you need. We’re doing everything online and it’s worked out. We send videos afterwards, so you have it if you didn’t fully catch it online. We break it down the way we do live, and I think we’re actually doing so much more now. We do it this way, then we turn this way, then we do a close-up on our feet, then our hands. I think students are getting more detail than they normally would, because in class, unless you’re a really detail-oriented kid, they’re not looking at everything. They get the general step and think they’re good to go. We try to fix them, but if they don’t notice it themselves, they don’t understand what to fix. This way I can say, “Get close to the screen, let me see your face,” and work on just the expression, then “Let me see your feet now.” We can be very specific, so that’s one of the benefits.
Andrea: And a sample of what you have to offer is also on YouTube, on the Dance Houston page, because you just did a master class for us.
Tina Bose Kumar: Yes, it was awesome. I had some technical issues, but it was really fun to do. Dance Houston is here to support all the dance schools in Houston and really promote us. Even before COVID you were doing so much for everybody. Your festivals, programs and camps are amazing, and you give scholarships to kids. It’s been awesome to be affiliated with you.
[29:45] Summer camp and missing the studio
Andrea: We love having you, too. I also took your class at our 24-hour dance marathon, and I had a ball. I admit I hadn’t gone to Stafford to take a class from you, and I always wanted to, because I love your shows. I must have seen you perform 20-something times, and I always love it. But I have kids, and it’s a long drive. I love that with our summer camp, we serve it up on a silver platter: you come to one studio, and all these teachers who specialize in different forms of dance from around the world come too, so the kids get dropped off, stay all day and learn all these styles. Virtual learning is kind of the same deal: you can go anywhere you want from home. It’s great that you’re making it available, sticking it out, and using the technology to get to the level of detail you’ve been trying to show people.
Tina Bose Kumar: It’s fun. We love teaching the summer camps. It’s so awesome to teach kids of so many different backgrounds at the same time, and they love Bollywood dance. Every year I come, they’re like, “Oh, Miss Tina’s back!” It makes you feel like a superstar. We always try to pick really fun songs with lots of beats to keep it interesting. This year was a little different, but normally they can showcase their tricks and be really creative.
Andrea: I love seeing them go all out for you when they perform. They go crazy, because you’ve let them loose.
Tina Bose Kumar: No inhibitions.
Andrea: Last year when we were at the mall performing, Garrett got the biggest reaction from the crowd of the whole show, because he got to do a flip.
Tina Bose Kumar: I know, it was so cool. He did a full tumbling pass. It started the dance off, and I thought, all right, it’s going to be a great dance.
Andrea: Well, we’ll look forward to better days.
Tina Bose Kumar: Yes. I’m looking forward to seeing everybody again in person. Every time I visit the studio and it’s empty, it’s saddening. Dancers really love the way it feels to be in that sweaty atmosphere. It’s like having a good workout, when the mirrors get foggy and you’ve had a great day of dance. I miss that. Now anything to do with people’s breath and air is a no. It’s so sad. Everyone’s afraid to breathe.
[33:28] Moving in unison
Andrea: There was a study that came out not too long ago about moving in unison in person with other people. I think I read it before the pandemic hit, because it didn’t ring as hard when I read it as it does now. It basically said that we get a huge rush, I don’t know if it was adrenaline or serotonin or both, a great feeling, when we move in unison with other people. That’s what marching did. The whole idea of marching was to feel good.
Tina Bose Kumar: I know, and that’s what we’re missing. You just can’t move in unison right now. I miss everything about being in a studio and doing it together, whether it’s a dance class or a routine or a fitness class where everyone’s doing it together.
Andrea: And that’s way better than “left, left, left, right, left,” but to think that even that was so life-enhancing for the hundreds of thousands of soldiers who have done it.
Tina Bose Kumar: I think it’s about being part of something bigger than yourself, feeling like you’re part of something so grand at that moment. It’s a really great feeling that you’re not alone; you’re doing something together. I think that’s what’s so beautiful, and what people are so enticed by, whether it’s marching together or dancing together or singing together: that feeling of unity. It’s the small things you miss now.
[34:55] How dance helps her cope
Andrea: How is dancing helping you cope?
Tina Bose Kumar: Dancing and teaching class is literally the only thing keeping me sane right now. I don’t think there’s ever been a time in my life that I wasn’t dancing. I’m not able to do shows, and I love to perform on stage, but at least I can share what I love with kids, keep teaching them, and see them grow into really beautiful dancers. Without that, I feel like I’d have no purpose. I don’t have a corporate job or belong to any other company; this is what I do. So being able to share it and practice at home is a true blessing. I’m so glad this happened at a time when we have the technology to still connect with people this way. In the 1900s, when the last pandemic happened, it wasn’t like that, so we’re really blessed this time around to still connect, whether it’s through dance or just waving at people on FaceTime or in a meeting.
Andrea: Right. It eases the isolation so much.
[36:38] Building a production
Andrea: Take us back to when you were doing shows. You’re the artistic director and Kiron Kumar is the creative director, and you split up the tasks. Can you tell us about the creative process? The big show’s coming, you’ve got the theater, you know how many students you have and your company. How do you approach it?
Tina Bose Kumar: Every year we have our recital at the end of the year. Ever since we started doing Bollywood Blast, I think the first one we did was 2013, and we’re so thankful to Rathna Kumar for giving us the opportunity to direct it.
Andrea: Thank you, Rathna.
Tina Bose Kumar: Yes. And her late husband, Anil Kumar, was there in 2013, and he really pushed us. He said, “It has to be like this and like that. You have to have a story, and the LED screen needs to be used.” He pushed us outside of what we thought we could do, because we were still a baby company, only about three years old. We were so blessed to have the honor, and we knew we had to make it amazing. It’s at Miller Outdoor Theatre, and 10,000 people are going to come out to watch, so it has to be memorable. Ever since that year, even our recitals have a storyline and visuals on the LED wall in the back. We used to use a regular projector; now we get an LED wall made and crazy lighting, and everything matches up.
Now we sit down and ask, “What do we want to do this year, story-wise?” We go through a couple of options. I usually come up with the basic story, Kiron writes the general script, and then Yaksha Bhatt writes the detailed script with the scenes, so we know where to place the songs, and we make it into a full-on production. We use the songs we’ve taught during the year and figure out where everything goes in sequence. The dance company drives the story, so we make sure our songs drive the story the right way, and the students too. Kiron edits all the music and does all the background work for the VFX. I design costumes and decide the order of the show, because I’m the one who knows how long it takes each person to change, and that’s important. Our dance company changes for every single piece, and our students change two or three times, so they need time to change, too. Then there are so many other things in putting on a production: getting booklets made, making sure the VIPs are seated correctly, promoting on social media. I take care of all of our social media.
We split everything. The problem is that whenever one of us is out of town, the other person suddenly has to learn the other’s job. Kiron is really great at everything but costumes. I think it’s a boy thing; they don’t know colors. I’m on the phone saying, “The pink costume,” and he’s showing me purple. “That’s not pink!” So I have to find a picture of it. That’s the one thing I don’t think he could do, and passing out the right costumes to the right kids is such an important task.
[41:50] Stories with a message
Andrea: When you envision a story and select one, what are you trying to convey?
Tina Bose Kumar: We always want a story with a good message at the end.
Andrea: Can you give us some examples of messages you’ve shared?
Tina Bose Kumar: We did a Bollywood version of Cinderella and redid it a little; the fairy godmother was a guy, and we made it really funny, but Cinderella is basically Cinderella, so you know that story. Last year we did a kind of Nutcracker and made it our own. She was going through different stories and had to find a key so the Nutcracker could be human again, and each story had a moral. She was teaching the Nutcracker to be a better person.
Andrea: Kind of Wizard of Oz, too.
Tina Bose Kumar: Yes, a mix of a few different stories. It was Christmas, so we made it like that. We take stories people can relate to right away, where they think, “I’ve seen something similar.” Because it’s Bollywood and a lot of people who come to the show aren’t Indian, everything is in English except the dances, so it’s relatable. And we have a lot of kids in the audience, so it should look like a fairy tale and feel magical. We do magic, so we plan the illusions throughout too, the way Kiron places his magic illusions in the show, so you feel that magical fairy-tale element as you watch. We’ve done a Bollywood version of Grease, too. We’ve done a lot of stories people already know and tweaked them a little.
[44:00] Magic and dance
Andrea: Where did you get your magic tricks?
Tina Bose Kumar: Kiron is actually a professional magician. He trained when he was little, and he won a presidential award in India for magic.
Andrea: Seriously?
Tina Bose Kumar: Yes. He was doing more hand illusions, the cards and the things you normally see at parties, at a more advanced level. Now that we have a company, we do major illusions, because it takes a team to do illusions; it’s a production. When we first got married and started the dance school, I said, “You know what, we should really include magic. You’re a magician. Why don’t we do magic and dance together?” I don’t know why no one was doing it, and I thought it would be such a cool thing if we could figure out how to make it relevant. That’s why we always have a story, because I feel like magic on stage isn’t that exciting to watch if you’re not telling a story of some kind. At a magic show, there’s the guy and the girl, then something happens and she gets taken away. If you don’t do it that way, it’s just “here’s a magic trick,” and it feels a little weird. So we build it into the story so it makes sense.
We got a new illusion last year. We did the story of the Ramayan during Diwali; we were hired by Masala Radio to be the finale production. It was all dance, with very little one- or two-line dialogue, just for it to make sense: good versus evil. I played Sita, and I get kidnapped. For the end sequence, I’m put into a box and they’re stabbing it, and since swords are kind of outdated, it’s LED tubes. It looks like I disappeared, and then Kiron, as Ram, comes and saves me, and I’m fine. We did it three times last year, and every time people asked, “Did you leave the stage?” No, I was there. Everyone was inspecting the box. It’s magic.
Andrea: That’s so cool. I love the connection with Indian culture. Magic carpet rides, it makes sense.
[47:15] The dream: Aladdin
Tina Bose Kumar: That’s our dream production, actually: to do Aladdin, Bollywood style. We’ve wanted to do it for a long time. Out of all the fairy tales, I think Aladdin is the most magic-oriented. Everyone remembers the genie and what the genie can do. But we need a really high budget to make it really grand, so we’re holding off. We want a magic carpet that actually flies. One day.
Andrea: Have you seen the Broadway show?
Tina Bose Kumar: Yes! It was so fabulous. I could watch it over and over again. The genie is so great. Because the Broadway show was so amazing, if you’re going to redo something people know, it has to be fabulous.
Andrea: You do kind of need to nail the magic carpet.
Tina Bose Kumar: For sure, that’s the main thing: how do you get the carpet to fly? We’re still working on it. You need a budget like Cirque du Soleil’s to make it look the way you want. Their whole production is built into wherever they are; the whole stage is moving. That’s how it needs to be for it to come to life the way we want. I don’t know when we’ll get that budget, but one day.
Andrea: Do you have an idea of what it would cost, totally ballpark? Two hundred thousand dollars? Five hundred thousand?
Tina Bose Kumar: I have no idea, because pricing for these things changes, and every year new technology comes into play and you want it in your show. Whatever I budgeted today could be thousands and thousands more next year. Especially now, everyone is struggling. Broadway, Cirque, everyone, because without shows, dancers can’t survive. I don’t know if this will make prices go up or down. We don’t know what corona is going to do to the entertainment field going forward.
Andrea: It’s definitely hitting hard in our field. But there’s a lot of home study going on, like you said, so we could be brewing something really great.
Tina Bose Kumar: True. This is a time when you either have to be on it or give up. I don’t think there’s an in-between; either you’re a fighter or you’re not. Everyone is struggling right now, and it’s been sad to hear about so many studios and people shutting down. I’m hoping everyone comes back.
[50:30] Studios closing and empty spaces
Andrea: Me too. It’s hard to imagine. I heard that María Fernanda Urbaez, who was our first guest on this show, closed her studio a couple of weeks ago. It was such a grand, wonderful place, and they were very successful artistically, and financially they had a lot of students. She decided she was going to reinvent herself, and she’s working on that. I look forward to seeing what she invents.
Tina Bose Kumar: She’s amazing. Sometimes when you’re thrown a curveball, you can take it and figure out something you never thought was possible. It is sad. The problem is that dance studios are very expensive. We have large spaces, and when those spaces aren’t being used, it is what it is. And not everybody wants to do virtual classes, which is sad, so studios can’t sustain things. I’m hoping that whatever happens, everyone figures out their new path and what’s going to work for them going forward.
Andrea: Well, we do need space, and now more than ever we need people to space out. There are so many underused spaces in Houston, and we have to have air conditioning for a lot of the year. Okay, we don’t have to, but we feel like we have to. Dance studios and theater spaces are empty now, and we’re very close to starting school, and so many parents are worried about getting all these children packed into buildings. Four hundred is a small elementary school, and 3,000 is a typical high school. Is there any system where we can spread some of these things out and start repurposing places? Even just for childcare: people in the medical field and food service still need help with a safe place for their kids. I wonder if some studios could help out that way, even in a limited, daytime way.
Tina Bose Kumar: I feel like people want to help, but everyone needs to figure out the best and safest way, because that’s what’s ultimately important. The other problem is that when anything happens, everyone goes to social media to shame people. You don’t know where anyone got anything from, but people are so quick to attack businesses and people on social media. It’s really sad that faceless people can do that to others. I think that scares businesses away from trying to help, because you’ll get shamed if something goes wrong.
Andrea: That’s a good point. Do you close your business, or help a few families but truly run a risk, and not just of public shaming, but of hurting someone or getting hurt? Then again, we need more space. It’s about where the kids would be otherwise. If they’re packed into a school classroom, that’s going to be harder on the teacher and harder on the other students and their families. School is such a big issue right now, because it’s August 1, and schools usually start in August.
Tina Bose Kumar: I know. Everyone is scared and tentative about the situation. I don’t actually know anybody here whose kids are going into school. Maybe some of the private schools are, but I think public schools are all online for the first couple of weeks. That’s an extra burden on parents to teach them, because things have changed since we were in school. Sometimes you wonder, what are they learning?
Andrea: This is pie in the sky, but dance studios are full of teachers, people who love to teach and love children, and who can teach dance. What if they could have four or five kids come in for their online virtual session, guide them through it and make sure the kids pay attention and get their work done? They won’t go to recess, but they’re in a studio, so they can turn on some music and get some exercise and some dance training in. Having that extra offering, supporting the public schools’ online learning so some parents can get back to work.
Tina Bose Kumar: I think something like that would help, and if there’s a way to do it safely, we would all want to.
Andrea: Just some middle ground.
[56:18] Social media
Andrea: You’re really active on social media. Do you ever feel conflicted about it?
Tina Bose Kumar: Kiron and I are very divided on it. He’s not anti-social media, but he doesn’t see a need for it; he doesn’t like people poking and prodding into his life. I’m the one who started all of our social media platforms, and I keep pushing it, because whether you want to understand it or not, it’s part of our lives now. I don’t think it’s going anywhere; if anything, it’s going to get more invasive. So you might as well learn to live with it. If it helps people know we’re still here, still in business and still doing things, I’m all about it. It’s funny, there are people who follow just me and maybe not the business, and they’re interested in what I’m doing every day. I had to start Kiron’s Instagram page, and now he’s a little active. I told him, people need to get to know you, because now you can’t meet people personally, so this is how they understand who you are and what you represent. People don’t just want your service; they want to know they’re going to the right person, someone they’d feel comfortable being around or having their kids around, like a friend or a mentor. So your social media has to reflect that. If you go on my page, you know right away: I’m a dancer, I’m a mom, I’m into fitness. People need to know you as a person, along with the services you provide. Everyone does it now. As soon as you see anybody, you’re stalking them on Facebook and Instagram, and if they don’t have a page, you Google them.
Andrea: Exactly. There are a hundred different ways to stalk anybody on the internet now.
Tina Bose Kumar: So you know people are going to look you up. Make it a representation of yourself. That’s why you have to be careful. You can’t just post yourself out being crazy, because it reflects on you, your business and where you stand.
Andrea: Good point. I like to share what we’re doing on social media as a statement, something good and positive to interrupt some of the hardship, and of course to make sure everybody knows what we’re offering so they can get in on it. But I know I’m feeding the beast. I can see the positive aspects, but I know Facebook has been set up to run an algorithm that encourages dissent and arguments, and what the world needs now is love, sweet love, not this stuff.
Tina Bose Kumar: And it’s not just Facebook; regular media and news are the same way. There are a ton of positive things every day they could report, but they choose to show only the bad, because people want to be in this toxic cycle of nonsense. I don’t tune into any of that. If there’s anything on my Facebook page I don’t like, I immediately block it and say I don’t want to see content like this again. I have my own beliefs, but I don’t push them on anybody, and I don’t want anyone pushing their ideas on me. Everyone’s ideas, beliefs, politics and faith are very personal, and they’re for you. I don’t need you to tell me mine is wrong and yours is right; that conversation isn’t necessary. I’m here to post cute pictures, positive quotes and a few dance things, and I hope you like it. That’s what I use social media for, not news articles. I miss Facebook when it was just for college students or professionals. Now that everyone is on there, it’s too much. That’s why I like Instagram so much more the way it is. You don’t see as many ads, it’s hard to see a lot of political stuff unless someone specifically posts it, and you don’t see news. I hope they don’t change it; they probably will, but right now I like Instagram. It’s nice.
Andrea: It’s more fun. Facebook makes me sad sometimes. I think I was able to handle it a lot more before the pandemic.
Tina Bose Kumar: Because you weren’t on there all the time.
Andrea: I don’t think I’m on there much anymore, overall. I don’t listen to the same podcasts anymore, either. I don’t want to hear about true crime right now. Everyday life is tough enough.
Tina Bose Kumar: Yes. It’s a sad time to live in, knowing we’re in the midst of this crisis. That’s enough news for me.
Andrea: But I still think we have to have the conversations about politics and race and religion. They’re just so personal that I like to have them face to face or on the phone.
Tina Bose Kumar: I love discussing that when we’re in a group. I just don’t like people posting things that may or may not be real facts. On the internet you’re just typing back and forth, and I don’t think you get the same conversation or ideas, or the inflections in your voice, the way you do talking to somebody in person. That’s why I don’t like to do it over social media.
Andrea: Do you think social media has helped your company a lot, though?
Tina Bose Kumar: Oh yeah, for sure. When we go to other states, people say, “Oh, you guys run Infused!” There’s no way they would know that otherwise. We do travel to other states, but we’re not going everywhere. People say, “I saw you doing this on Facebook or YouTube.” So it has helped us a lot. I love social media that way, and I use it mainly for my business.
[64:46] Working directly with clients
Andrea: Do you get booked directly, or do you have an agent, or both?
Tina Bose Kumar: We get booked directly. Kiron and I were never able to let go of the reins for a lot of the business, and we never hired anybody to do a lot of the background work. We’re still the ones sending emails and doing all the office work. There are pluses and minuses. Clients are talking to us directly, which is good. But you want people to respect you, and you have to make sure they’re willing to pay what we’re asking, and if there’s a problem with the service, we want to handle it the right way, because we’re also the owners of the business.
Andrea: Right. They ask you to do one thing, you agree on a price, and then it turns into a whole other idea. I like helping out as the middleman, to be one extra layer of protection, support and explanation, and to make sure the boundary is right there. It’s in black and white in the contract, and it’s also going to be enforced by me, so the artists can just show up and be friendly and agreeable, without having to take it on head to head.
Tina Bose Kumar: I think it’s hard because clients will often say, “I told so-and-so this, so why are you not doing it?” It’s easier to say, “No, I told you this is what’s happening. This is what we talked about in the contract.” You have so much expertise with weddings and other functions; you know how different clients are. Some people don’t understand what we’re talking about and imagine something totally different, so it’s easier when you’re doing it yourself.
Andrea: Right. That direct communication is something I can’t provide if I’m in the middle. Did you want to set up a creative meeting? Did you want an on-site rehearsal before the event? Those things are time, and time is money. We’re working for you, but you get what you pay for.
Tina Bose Kumar: Yep, it’s very true. So many times clients say, “But so-and-so is cheaper.” Well, then you can go with them, and you’ll see what your event looks like. Then look at the videos of the events we do, and you’ll see a clear difference. It’s up to you what you want to spend, and that’s true for anything: photography, videography, DJ. Everyone is important, and you get what you pay for. I feel like anyone in the artistic field or creative industry isn’t valued as much for their time, because people think, “You like what you do, so we shouldn’t pay you that much, because you enjoy it.” But you can’t go to your accountant and say, “You love being a CPA, so I’m going to pay you ten dollars an hour.” That would never fly. I don’t know why people expect that just because we like being a dancer, a photographer or a videographer, we shouldn’t get paid for our work. It takes the same amount of time, talent and education in our field.
Andrea: True. Have you ever heard of Adam Smith, the economist who wrote The Wealth of Nations? He’s one of the founders of the field, and he says what people really want is to be loved and to be lovely. When it comes to dance, dancers are lovely, and they’re applauded and known and revered for it. A lot of people work very hard to get things or do things that make them lovely, and with dance it’s built into the career, a requirement. Having that affirmation while you’re working is like the end goal. I think that gets confusing to the audience or the client sometimes. I won’t say they’re envious, but they wish they could do it.
Tina Bose Kumar: That’s true.
Andrea: And dance is such a wonderful beautification process. I feel like it’s a little different from being a CPA.
Tina Bose Kumar: Yes, it is very different. That’s a very valid point, because I remember some people saying, “Oh my gosh, you charge this much for five minutes? I wish I could make that much in five minutes.” And I’m like, do you know how long it takes to come up with five minutes of choreography that’s different and very specific? It’s so much work. Sometimes it’s so insulting. People say it all the time.
Andrea: I hope we can help educate people a little: the training begins when we’re young, and then the work begins in creating that piece for you, to your song, at your venue setup.
Tina Bose Kumar: And people don’t understand that everyone’s venue setup is so different. Now people have created this octagon thing, and they say, “Okay, now you have to dance on all the sides.” What is this? You have to change it up. So many times we’ve had to change things at the venue. They say, “We want 30 dancers,” but their stage only fits 10, so we’ve had people dance in the aisles. You have no idea how many things we’ve had to change that day, because we can’t just say we’re not performing. We have to make it work.
[72:03] “Howdy Modi” at NRG Stadium
Andrea: What was the big show you did at NRG Stadium? Was that the one with the swords, or a different one?
Tina Bose Kumar: At NRG we did “Howdy Modi.” The prime minister of India came, and President Donald Trump came too, so it was a very huge deal. The company managing it had everyone send in audition videos from all over Texas, actually all over the U.S., because it was a nationally televised event. I think millions of people watched it on TV. It was insane. It was telecast all over the U.S., India, everywhere, because the prime minister was here and then President Trump came.
Andrea: What did you do for it?
Tina Bose Kumar: We were the Bollywood finale. They selected, I think, three of us in the Bollywood category, and they had us be the finale, so we had the most time. They picked out what they wanted, because they were telling a story about a girl here who’s trying to be Indian and American, the struggle to be both and be respected. At the end, we did a fast number and added some line dancing in between, to show that you can be both and it can be beautiful: you can be Indian and American and proud, and still represent you as a person. It was really fun. I think we had about 30 dancers, guys and girls. It was really big. It was awesome.
Andrea: Can we see it?
Tina Bose Kumar: Yes, I think it’s everywhere: YouTube, Facebook, Instagram. We posted it everywhere, because it was cool.
Andrea: I have to check it out. Congratulations.
Tina Bose Kumar: Thank you.
[74:45] The Slumdog Millionaire effect
Andrea: A couple more questions. How did your life change with Slumdog Millionaire?
Tina Bose Kumar: Bollywood became nationally recognized. It was instantly on all the competition shows; suddenly there was a Bollywood category. Bollywood was everywhere and everyone was doing it. That national and global recognition was so important for Indians to go to the next step, where people recognize us and understand a little more about our culture, how beautiful and vibrant and colorful it is. But the downfall was that everyone only knows “Jai Ho.” Even now, people say, “Can you do ‘Jai Ho’?” There are a billion songs that have been released that are far better. Not to say “Jai Ho” isn’t good; it’s a great song. But there’s only so much you can do with it, and it’s like doing something that’s 10 years old now. We still get asked all the time to do Slumdog Millionaire pieces.
Andrea: It’s an oldie but a goodie.
Tina Bose Kumar: It’s an oldie but a goodie, and we’ve come to terms with it. It’s a running joke now among Indian dancers: “Oh my gosh, we’re doing ‘Jai Ho.'” Any new client who’s not very familiar with Bollywood asks, “Can you guys do ‘Jai Ho’?” Okay, yeah. It’s a pretty easy song to choreograph and we’ve already done it a few different ways, but we enjoy creating something new and innovative for clients. If that’s all you want, okay, we’ll come do it. Kiron and I take a lot of pride in what we put out, and we want it to be the best of the best for every client. Our “Jai Ho” looks really good, but we could be doing more.
Andrea: And like you said about being behind, you want to keep it fresh and up to date.
Tina Bose Kumar: That’s a huge part of it, because non-Indians say, “Oh, ‘Jai Ho,’ we know that song, we love it.” But at every event we do, there are going to be Indian people, and literally every Indian is like, “Why are they doing ‘Jai Ho’?” Don’t ask us; this is what they wanted. For anyone who’s not Indian, “Jai Ho” is their jam. It’s usually the first Bollywood movie they’ve watched.
Andrea: What made it cross the ocean? Why was that the one?
Tina Bose Kumar: Because it won so many Oscars, and the music won, too. I think A.R. Rahman won two Oscars. Whenever a movie wins an Oscar, everyone says, “Okay, we’ve got to go watch that movie.” That’s pretty much what happened. People who hadn’t seen it when it came out definitely went and saw it once it won. I don’t even know how many awards it won, but it was quite a few.
[78:00] Where “Bollywood” comes from
Andrea: When did Bollywood start? Just after Hollywood?
Tina Bose Kumar: I don’t know if it was always called Bollywood. We’ve had Indian cinema since cinema was available. I’m not sure when the actual inception of Bollywood happened, but I’m sure it was after Hollywood came into the picture. Now all the film industries in India have similar names; we have Tollywood and Mollywood and Kollywood, depending on what region of India you’re in. The B is for Bombay. They named it when it was still called Bombay; now it’s Mumbai, but they’re not going to change it to Mollywood, because Mollywood is a different film industry now.
Andrea: Okay, cool.
[79:21] Parting advice: let the music move you
Andrea: Let’s close with you taking us on as your students and giving us some life advice or dance advice, whatever you’d like to share, be it your motto or something we can do when we turn this off and get back to reality. Maybe turn on some music and just have a better life with your guidance.
Tina Bose Kumar: I would say really, truly use music as an avenue to feel whatever you’re feeling. It can be any song you truly love; let it move you. There’s a really great quote, I think from Sandra Bullock, that I posted a couple of days ago on my social media, about how you should dance in the morning, because it makes you walk a little different. I think it’s so important to be within yourself and feel the freedom of movement. Honestly, it should be for yourself, because any dancer who loves to dance does it for themselves, too. You should just love to move, whatever that is. Even if it looks ugly to you, it doesn’t matter; no one’s there in your room. Let it move you, feel whatever emotions you need to feel, and then go on with your day. It’s going to make you feel so different and so much lighter, and it’ll help you deal with things you probably weren’t ready to deal with. That’s the power of music and the power of movement. I think it’s just as important as learning anything else in your life to be in touch with your body and in touch with sound. Enjoy the little things, and don’t be hard on yourself about not doing enough. Every little thing you do matters, whether it’s for yourself or for somebody else. That’s it.
Andrea: My guest today is Tina Bose Kumar. Her company is Infused Performing Arts. Tina, thank you for being a part of DanceTalks.
Tina Bose Kumar: Thank you, Andrea, for having me on here. I’m really excited. Thank you, guys. I hope you liked it.
Andrea: Thanks for listening. Please subscribe and share our podcast, and reach out to us on social media if you’d like to talk. To support DanceTalks, donate to Dance Houston. Talk to you on Monday.